ATF Change

[Alpo714]

Hi Everyone,

I read on many of the posts on this website that I should only use Honda ATF-Z1 in my car. In your opinion, would taking my car to have transmission fluids pumped (not drained) out by the computerized system worth it? Will this damage my pilot if I had them pump all of the fluid out and replace it with HONDA or Mobile ONE ATF-Z1?

Is there any reason to believe that having a non-honda-dealer pump out tranny fluids damage my transmission?

Regards,

-Albert

[rocky]

I believe the preference is for natural draining not pumping. Pumping allegedly causes damage but I've never seen a proven case of that.

Do not use anything other than Honda branded fluid in the transmission.

[jestmaty]

+ 1 on only using Honda branded fluid for the transmission. Manuals say to only use Honda fluid.

I wouldn't want to have any warranty issues by using Mobil one or such in the case of a tranny failure.

[rockman19762001]

+2 on the Honda Fluids, Honda's have been notorious for not performing well when other fluids are used. I know other Honda users that have used fluids that were supposedly compatable only to have to drain and refill with Honda's own fluid.

On the other hand you can use any brand of 5-20 oil when changing your oil.

[chiph]

+3 to only using Honda fluids in your transmission.

Honda's transmissions aren't like other car maker's. They're closer to an "automatic manual" than anything else.

Also, another vote for the drain + fill technique. The flushing systems and the pumping systems (like the "Topsider") are not recommended.

Chip H.

[Alpo714]

Thanks for the help guys. I'll swing by honda sometime to pick up some oil.

[belundy]

You can get close to a 100% fluid exchange locating the return hose coming from the steering rack to the radiator cooler, pulling the hose off, extending it with a piece of CLEAR hose over the end or a short piece of copper tube to splice the two hoses. Put the hose into five gallon bucket or similar. Put the bucket to the drivers side where you can see it.

THE SEQUENCE IS IMPORTANT!

Start the car (in park) and let it run until the hose flow is not solid red and it JUST STARTS to SPUTTER and shut off the engine. It should have pumped out close to three quarts.

Put three quarts into the fill hole. Start engine and run until hose sputters.

Pour three quarts in and repeat engine run.

Reconnect cooler house and pour in 2.5 quarts.

Run engine until up to temp, check dipstick and add fluid until to HOT FULL mark.

All done. Approx nine quarts out, nine quarts in. Won't hurt it a bit as the pump never really runs "dry". Done this for years on many cars.

[chiph]

Belundy -
While that will work, it's not a recommended practice as you're running the transmission while it's almost dry.

Chip H.

[JCPILOT01]

I posted a very similar question about six months ago in the "General Discussion" forum about Mobile One ATF Z1 vs. Honda Z1.

While I don't honestly know if it's better to drain than flush, I was told that Mobil One ATF wasn't Z1 approved and that my transmission was done after one day of that stuff being in the trans.

While I agree that conventional wisdom says use Honda fluid only, I did check with Mobil One and they sent me a data sheet showing that their trans fluid was not only compatible with Honda Z1 but met the same standards.

Like anything else on the internet, you don't base all your decisions, financial, medical, auto related or other based solely on what you read.

I was told to immediately run out into the garage and drain the Mobil One out at once, and in fact drain and fill the trans repeatedly to make sure not an ounce was left. I was told that it might already be too late and that my transmission was damaged after only 19 miles on it after the fluid swap.

Well that was six months ago and roughly 13,000 miles ago (I drive 25,000 + per year). As it turns out I went back through my service records and the same shop has been using Mobil One ATF for the last few trans flushes.

My 03 Pilot now has 104,000 miles on it and has been getting Mobil One ATF since 56,000 miles. Transmission shifts smoothly with no problems.

At the end of the day, use Honda ATF simply because it makes sense that it wouldn't cause any problems.

Maybe I am just a statistical outlier, but don't believe everything you read on the internet.

[belundy]

Well, despite false intuitiveness, it really can't do any significant damage; you do essentially the exact same thing every 3000 miles when you change the engine oil as the system runs with zero/low pressure for a few seconds until the oil filter and the oil passages fill back up.

A 100% exchange (by any method) more than twice in the life of a vehicle probably yields diminishing returns.

I did fail to indicate when one might want to do a 100% exchange;

When other fluid types have contaminated the factory fill.

When the trans has gone more than say 80k average or 40k severe duty miles without the regular drain-three-quart maintenance.

When buying a used vehicle where the fluid maintanance is untraceable or suspect.

Last ditch effort to fix torque converter shudder or shift issues.

[belundy]

I would agree with the Z1/Mobil 1 or even other substitute fluid arguments.

I have yet to see anything beyond anecdotal evidence that transmission damage--shift quality or shudder issues maybe-- was caused by using fluids that were were at least on the bottle "recommended" or "acceptable" substitutes for the factory fill. Most reputable fluid manufacturers don't want class action suits.

It appears that there are three broad classes of fluid; slightly, moderately and heavily friction modified (slickery), in mineral, synthetic or blends.

GM, until Dexron Type VI, used slightly modified, as did Ford and Toyota until the mid 90's. Chrysler and Honda have been using moderate to heavily modified fluids since the 80's.

CVT's appear to use very heavily friction modified fluids--warnings thereof appear on many/most aftermarket fluids.


A hint of the flexibility in fluids are GM's own Dexron formulations over the last 30 years and broad substitution of, for example, Type VI in virtually everything back to Type II original fill. I drained off my Toyota power steering Dexron III factory fill and put in Type VI because of its superior lubrication and shear stability.

Obviously, you are always safe and warrantable when you use factory fill. However, paranoia on the order of people getting a different blood type in a transfusion, is unwarranted.

[MRM4]

The manufacturer is going to tell you to only use their products for replacement. That way they and their dealers can make more money. I'm not saying anything is or isn't superior to the other. I say take it with a grain of salt and see what some independent testers say when comparing the manufacturers version with another brand. There are some very inferior products out there, but there are some very good ones too.

[Armystrong]

Originally posted by JCPILOT01
I did check with Mobil One and they sent me a data sheet showing that their trans fluid was not only compatible with Honda Z1 but met the same standards.

Is there anyway you can post this sheet or send it to me. I am kinda curious to see what Mobil One says about their fluid.

Thanks
Jim

[JCPILOT01]

Originally posted by Armystrong

Is there anyway you can post this sheet or send it to me. I am kinda curious to see what Mobil One says about their fluid.

Thanks
Jim

Jim,

I don't have have the data sheet anymore but go to:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...thetic_ATF.asp

It lists Honda Z1 and then has most of the specs on the fluid below. I think the specs on this page are the same as what I got from Mobil.

[Armystrong]

Originally posted by JCPILOT01


Jim,

I don't have have the data sheet anymore but go to:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...thetic_ATF.asp

It lists Honda Z1 and then has most of the specs on the fluid below. I think the specs on this page are the same as what I got from Mobil.

Thank you for the web page.