Bleeding with the Motive Power Bleeder - Howto

[ctobio]

Well, a few weeks ago I'd promised I'd write up the procedure for bleeding the brakes on the Pilot with the Motive Power Bleeder.

I've been using mine on all my cars for years, but hadn't done the Pilot yet, or used my Motive 1101 universal adapter. Well, I did the job, and was successful- no problems whatsoever.

So, without further ado, here's the procedure.

(disclaimer- don't do this without the proper tools and experience. The procedure is documented for illustrative purposes. This is merely how I did it. I cannot guarantee that following this procedure won't kill you. You have been warned.)

Now with that out of the way.

What you will need:
[list=1][*]All the usual stuff for jacking up and removing tires (jack, jackstand, 19mm socket and breaker bar, torque wrench)[*]10mm combination wrench (I prefer a 6-point box end)[*]Motive power bleeder tank and pump kit[*]Motive 1101 Round Universal Adapter[*]Motive Bleeder bottle (optional), or some other reasonable substitute (I made my own)[*]Turkey baster, one that you will never ever use for food again. I like going to the dollar store for this.[*]1 Quart of brake fluid, Minimum spec is DoT-3, I happen to like Valvoline DoT-3 & 4 or Castrol LMA. They say synthetic on the bottle, but note that ALL brake fluid is synthetic. I usually buy a second quart just in case, and use it on another car if I have to.[/list=1]

Raise the front of the car and support both sides with jackstands and remove the tires.

Remove the brake fluid cap and set aside. You can disconnect the plug if you'd like, but there's enough slack to tuck the cap aside. Wipe it down with a clean cloth before, however.

Remove the filter basket under the cap and set aside. Wipe it down with a clean cloth.

Use the turkey baster to suction out as much brake fluid as possible. You're only going to be able to remove all the brake fluid from the front circuit. The rear circuit will drain about halfway. If the brake fluid is 2.5 years old, like mine, it should be a dark amber color.

Refill the master cylinder with clean fluid from an unopened bottle.

Now, attach the Motive 1101 Round universal adapter. The chain goes around the bottom of the master cylinder. I put a little clean brake fluid on the rubber insert to get a good seal. Do not overtighten. You don't want to crack the reservoir.

It'll look something like this:

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Fill up the Motive Power Bleeder with the remainder of the brake fluid from the bottle you just opened.

Pump the power bleeder to about 5psi and check for leaks. I usually put a rag over the brass fittings for the adapter, but also make sure the cap adapter isn't leaking. If all's well, pump it up to 12 PSI, and check for leaks again.

Now, starting at the driver's side front (the bleed sequence is the opposite of most cars I've ever worked on) remove the bleeder cap (and set aside, you're going to reuse it), attach the hose from your bleeder recovery bottle and turn the bleeder screw 1/2 turn with the 10mm wrench, using the box end.

I like to make the bleeder hose go up and then back down and watch for bubbles. Bubbles would be a very bad thing to have here.

Your setup should look like this:

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The brake fluid you see coming out should be dark amber, and after a minute should lighten up. Make sure the pressure in the bleeder tank stays above 10psi. Once the color of the brake fluid is light yellow, close up the bleeder screw nice and snug (don't overtorque, you should have to tighten it any more than you loosened)

It should take about 250ml of fluid to drain. Each corner should take about 5 minutes, provided you keep the pressure on the tank from 10-12psi.

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Move on to the right front and repeat. Drain out another 250ml.

Note the dark color of the fluid that's draining out- I'd just opened the screw.

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Move on to the right rear. On thr rears, you should be draining 100-150ml of fluid each side, as the calipers are smaller.

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Finally, move on to the left rear. At this point, be very wary that the motive power bleeder doesn't start pumping up air. Watch for bubbles at the line out of the tank. If you see bubbles start, close the bleeder valve immediately and release pressure from the tank by unscrewing the tank lid/pump.

[ctobio]

At this point you should be done. Before you remove the cap adapter from the reservoir, release the pressure from the tank by unscrewing the pump/cap.. If you were to remove the cap without doing this, you would shoot brake fluid all over the place, creating a colossal mess.

At this point, once you've removed the reservoir cap, you're going to have too much brake fluid- it'll be full to the top of the cap. With the turkey baster, remove brake fluid until you get to the top of the fill line. Re-insert the filter basket, and reinstall the brake reservoir cap (and plug in the harness if necessary).

Provided you didn't introduce any air into the braking system by letting the tank run dry, you should have a fully bled system that's ready for a test drive.

Take the car for a drive. Test the brakes in your driveway. Pedal should be firm- no less firm than it was when you started. When you bled each corner, you should not have seen any bubbles forming at the bleeder nipple. If you did see bubbles, you may have somehow introduced air in your system.

Once you've ensured the pedal is firm, take the car for a drive, preferably somewhere that isn't heavily populated, and make sure the brakes perform properly.

Discard the used brake fluid in accordance to local regulations. Any spilled brake fluid in the driveway can be rinsed off with soapy water.

[ctobio]

By the way, I have no idea what folks are talking about with the 1101 Universal Round adapter. I had no trouble whatsoever maintaining 10-12psi on the tank without any leaks, and it's not like I had the wingnuts and chain clampdown on particularly tight, as I was afraid to crack the reservoir.

[geopilot]

Great post-thanks for taking the time to document this. I'll try again with my Motive bleeder on the Pilot- I may have been using too much pressure- I think I was trying to use about 20psi and the cap didn't hold that. But 10psi should work- just takes a little longer. Only other thing I can think of is the rubber seal may be bad on mine.

[ctobio]

Originally posted by geopilot
Great post-thanks for taking the time to document this. I'll try again with my Motive bleeder on the Pilot- I may have been using too much pressure- I think I was trying to use about 20psi and the cap didn't hold that. But 10psi should work- just takes a little longer. Only other thing I can think of is the rubber seal may be bad on mine.

20 psi is excessive for any car. You run the risk of damaging the seals on the master cylinder. I don't go over 15 psi ever.

On the Pilot, 10-12 psi was sufficient to bleed each corner properly in under 5 minutes.

[kramerd1506]

I have a question about this procedure. I have never changed brake fluid before, but this seems easy enough to do with the power bleeder.

I understand why air in the brake hydrolics is bad, no problem there. But I can't figure out how you are avoiding getting air in the system. In the first photo posted, the universal adapter is shown tightened onto the master cylinder / reservoir and the hose running to the adapter is filled with air.

So, if I understand the use of the bleeder, when you fill the bleeder tank with fluid and pressurize the system, isn't the air in the hose going to be pumped right into the brake system once you open one of the bleeder valves? How do you keep that from happening, or what do you do about that air if it gets into the system? Likewise, since we have sucked some of the old fluid out with a turkey baster, wouldn't there also be a pocket of air floating near the the top of the reservoir where the cap goes?

Also, in subsequent images, I see large pockets of air coming through the drain hoses. Where did this air come from?

Thanks in advance!
-Dan

[ctobio]

Originally posted by kramerd1506
In the first photo posted, the universal adapter is shown tightened onto the master cylinder / reservoir and the hose running to the adapter is filled with air.

Easy, I hadn't pressurized the system, so there WAS air in the lines.

So, if I understand the use of the bleeder, when you fill the bleeder tank with fluid and pressurize the system, isn't the air in the hose going to be pumped right into the brake system once you open one of the bleeder valves?

As long as the reservoir is full of fluid, air will not get in the system. It's not unusual to see air pockets in the line coming out of the bleeder pressure tank. As long as the tank itself doesn't run dry, and the level of fluid in the master cylinder is at or above "Max" then you're all set.

How do you keep that from happening, or what do you do about that air if it gets into the system?

See above. If you introduce air into the system, you're going to have to do a bleed on the corner that was open when you pushed air in the system. I've done that once before.

Likewise, since we have sucked some of the old fluid out with a turkey baster, wouldn't there also be a pocket of air floating near the the top of the reservoir where the cap goes?

Air, being that it's constituents are smaller molecules than the constituents of brake fluid, are able to escape through any imperfections in the seal more readily than the fluid. Also, I should have noted that I refilled the master with clean fluid before I attached the adapter to minimize any chance of introducing air into the system.

Also, in subsequent images, I see large pockets of air coming through the drain hoses. Where did this air come from?

It's not pockets of air escaping. It's the fact that there isn't enough pressure in the line to fill up the hose with fluid faster than it can escape. That's one reason I loop the hose upwards- so I can let the hose fill up with fluid to a certain degree and monitor for bubbles. If air were escaping, I'd see bubbles forming at the bleeder nipple.

[kramerd1506]

A-HA! Great, thanks for the explanation. I think I'm going to give this a try when the time comes. I have an 06, so it's getting close. Good howto writeup.

[VettePilot]

I use a Phoenix Injector, for most.

http://www.brakebleeder.com/product.php?pid=1

[macphanatic]

Originally posted by VettePilot
I use a Phoenix Injector, for most.

http://www.brakebleeder.com/product.php?pid=1

Looks interesting. They need to fire their web designer. The "Click to Enlarge" brings up the same small image.

Most of us couldn't justify the cost though.