Dealer Balking at VTM-4 Fluid Change?

[Shindig78]

I took my '08 Pilot 4WD in to the dealership for its second service today. I'm just at 9,900 miles, and the Maintenance Minder indicator came on last week indicating a code of B-1-6 -- oil/filter change, tire rotation, and VTM-4 fluid change.

So, being the responsible owner that I am, I called the dealer last week to schedule the service. I told them about the B-1-6 code. "Oh, you must be near 7500 miles, so you just need our 7500 mile service," the service writer informed me, which is just an oil change and tire rotation. I told them that I also needed the VTM-4 change. The response: "What's that? Oh, it's too early for that -- you don't need it." I persisted and the service writer reluctantly added it to the ticket.

This morning, when I dropped it off for service, a different service writer also looked puzzled about the VTM-4 fluid change. He at least knew what it was, but didn't think I needed it until 15,000 miles. I explained that it was important to me that they changed it, and he of course agreed to do the work.

Has anyone else had this experience? I find it puzzling for a couple of reasons. First, that the first person didn't even know what VTM-4 fluid was -- Pilots have been on the road since late 2002, and I bet CR-Vs have been using VTM-4 fluid since the late 1990s. Second, that they would question the service and potentially give up the opportunity to make more money on a routine maintenance item (but this might be a good thing after all because they are not trying to force services that they feel are not needed). Finally, that they have not embraced the Maintenance Minder system -- the dealer insists on sticking to their set service intervals. My expectation is that I should be able to call them, give them the Maintence Minder code, and have them schedule the service based on that information alone.

I don't mean to carry on, just wanted to see what reaction others have received when asking the dealer to change the VTM-4 fluid. I've done some searching here, and from what I've seen it looks like changing the VTM-4 fluid at the second service is common.

[NJGuy]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that CRV's use the VTM-4 fluid. They have a different system called "Real time 4WD" or something and I think the fluid they use is "Dual pump" fluid or something along those lines. I don't know what the change interval is for that fluid.

Also, maybe the service writers at your dealership are just used to the using mileage for scheduling maintenance. It does make it a bit easier for them to send out their marketing mailing "reminders" that say you are due for the XX,XXX mile maintenance. Either that, or if they haven't embraced the maintenance minder, maybe its because the Honda owners they service haven't embraced it as well? For most people, its a bit easier to schedule their maintenance by mileage intervals than to wait for the car's computer to tell them. It's what they're used to (or programmed to ). I know that I only follow the maintenance minder in my wife's car for oil changes and tire rotations. The other items (like tranny fluid and air filters) I change according to mileage.

At least you know that the dealer wasn't trying to push some service that you didn't need, so that's something to be happy about.

[Shindig78]

Originally posted by NJGuy
Also, maybe the service writers at your dealership are just used to the using mileage for scheduling maintenance. It does make it a bit easier for them to send out their marketing mailing "reminders" that say you are due for the XX,XXX mile maintenance. Either that, or if they haven't embraced the maintenance minder, maybe its because the Honda owners they service haven't embraced it as well? For most people, its a bit easier to schedule their maintenance by mileage intervals than to wait for the car's computer to tell them. It's what they're used to (or programmed to ). I know that I only follow the maintenance minder in my wife's car for oil changes and tire rotations. The other items (like tranny fluid and air filters) I change according to mileage.

At least you know that the dealer wasn't trying to push some service that you didn't need, so that's something to be happy about.

Thanks for the reply, NJGuy. I do appreciate the fact that the dealer is not pushing for additional services, and I agree that most people are "programmed" to do services at set intervals. Being a techie guy myself, I like the fact that the car tells me what needs to be serviced and when, but I understand that the dealer needs to cater to a large audience, and I'm sure many of the cars they service do not have the Maintenance Minder.

This is certainly not a serious issue by any means, but I still find it odd that the service writers would balk at a fairly common service. I'm curious to see what experiences anyone else has had with this.

[TomStromie]

So, did your dealer have a package price for the 7,500 mile service? I find the prices those packages to be horribly inflacted and little more than a revenue generating item for the dealer. I prefer to do most of that work myself since I know it gets done right.

[whizmo]

I don't think dealers like the maintenance minder system and would prefer to just keep their old ways of doing whatever high-priced packs they can push upon the customer at 7500 intervals. So their reluctance is just trying to maintain their margins in tough times.

- Mark

[John G]

I have been pricing VTM-4 fluid at both dealers in my area. At both parts departments they first quoted me prices for 'Dual Pump' fluid. I asked again about VTM-4, and told them it was for a Pilot, and got an "Oh yeah, that's different stuff". Made me a littel leery of having any service work done at those shops. I had a 1st gen CRV, and it did use Dual Pump fluid in the rear end. I changed it myself, and will continue to do those fluid changes on the Pilot too. Both rear end and the tranny change are easier than an oil change! Guess you gotta watch what they sell you.
Regards,
John

[Roger]

I can only imagine what these "dealers" are actually putting in your rear ends!!!!! I'd say anywhere from motor oil to tranny fluid to 80/90 gear oil to dual pump fluid, some may even get VTM4 in there

[Shindig78]

Originally posted by whizmo
I don't think dealers like the maintenance minder system and would prefer to just keep their old ways of doing whatever high-priced packs they can push upon the customer at 7500 intervals. So their reluctance is just trying to maintain their margins in tough times.

- Mark

That's my hunch, too -- the dealers like their recommended milestones because it promotes regular servicing at potentially more frequent intervals than the Maintenance Minder would offer.

And yes, the dealer did perform their "package" 7,500 mile service for $84.95 that included an oil change and tire rotation plus many other checks. The only thing they found were two wheels that were slightly off balance, so they re-balanced them as part of the service. My total bill for that service, plus the VTM-4 fluid change ($77.74), and the annual PA state safety and emissions inspection ($59.90 with coupon) was $237.14.

I know that I could have done this work myself (except for the state inspection) and saved some money, but the convenience factor of going to the dealership was worth the extra fees to me. I actually do service my "fleet" on my own from time to time when I have the time and space (unfortunately I do not have a driveway at my house -- street parking only -- which makes it tough to do work).

Thanks to all for your replies!

[ctobio]

Originally posted by Roger
I can only imagine what these "dealers" are actually putting in your rear ends!!!!!

I'd tell you what the dealers are trying to put in our rear ends, but this is a family site...

[Roger]

Originally posted by ctobio


I'd tell you what the dealers are trying to put in our rear ends, but this is a family site...

Took longer than I thought it would for someone to reply to that!!

[kellera]

Isn't the differential job supposed to occur around 15K miles? My light came on last week (B16) and I am so surprised to need this type of service so early. This is my first Honda SUV, and it seems so high maintenace already! I have been a Ford girl for YEARS, and all I ever did was oil change and light maintenance.

[rockman19762001]

On my 03 the VTM-4 fluid was scheduled for first service at 15,000 miles then not serviced until 45,000. The scheduled from then out was servicing at 30,000 mile intervals. But, the dealerships love there serve packages. I just do what the schedule says and the 03 Pilot has 102,000 plus trouble free miles.

[ctobio]

Originally posted by kellera
Isn't the differential job supposed to occur around 15K miles? My light came on last week (B16) and I am so surprised to need this type of service so early. This is my first Honda SUV, and it seems so high maintenace already! I have been a Ford girl for YEARS, and all I ever did was oil change and light maintenance.

I don't thing there's a lot of logic in the Maintenance Minder vis-a-vis the VTM-4 or Automatic transmission service.

I think that the MM will throw out the 6 code on the first oil change after 10,000 miles. Mine it came on around 13000 miles. It would rather err on the side of caution on declaring a VTM-4 change sooner rather than the next oil change, which could be at 16000 miles.

I have 37000 miles on my Pilot right now, with a 30% oil life. I predict that I will be getting code 6 if my next oil change occurs after 40000 miles, and it'll ask for an A/T and transfer case change as well.