Tranny concerns...

[ducatiduke]

I have a 03 Pilot an in December, my 4-year lease is up. I like the car, it is in great condition and actually considering purchasing it after the lease. Here I my dilemma - I recently changed out my tranny fluid because the shifting was acting different. It would not coast well… It almost seemed like it was hanging or bogged down. I was at 33k and 3.5 years. The manual states 30k or 24 months. The good news it seems like it is shifting much better since I did this (yes, I did use ATF Z1). The not so good news is the tranny fluid was a not in the greatest condition. Then again, maybe it was good seeing I have not ever done this before. I am not positive what burnt tranny fluid smells like, but it did have a different odor compared to the new fluid and it as definitely much darker red. In addition, on the drain plug did have some grey/silver metal particles on it. Not a ton, but they were there. Comparing it to the VTM-4 fluid I changed last week, which was super clean, with no smell, I am a bit concerned. I think I am going to change it again in a few weeks to see what it looks like… I bought a case of ATF ZI and might go somewhere and have it flush completely seeing I am concerned with it.

In any event, I wonder if I caused any damage seeing there was a small amount of particles on the magnetic drain plug?

Or is this normal?

Was I super late on this seeing it said 24 month or 30k miles?

Should I go in a have someone do a complete flush?

Should I walk away from this car in December because I might have issues with the tranny?

[jcantanixon]

There is probably nothing wrong with the tranny. Burnt fluid smells REALLY bad. Personally, I would still walk away. The 03's had some tranny issues, and the 06's have quite a few improvements. In Dec, the 07s will be out.

[rocky]

Originally posted by jcantanixon
There is probably nothing wrong with the tranny. Burnt fluid smells REALLY bad. Personally, I would still walk away. The 03's had some tranny issues, and the 06's have quite a few improvements. In Dec, the 07s will be out.

Good advice.

[andyschneider]

From my expereince with several Hondas and other cars with auto trannys - the Hondas are much more "picky" about change intervals than other cars (like GM, ford, et al). If you wait too long, you get odd shifting. You saw that after a drain and refill that things got better. But don't do a flush - at next oil change, drain the tranny fluid again. You'll get more of the old stuff out of the converter this way, and get more new fluid mixture in.

The amount of shavings you saw on the drain plug wasn't abnormal - our 93 Legend had that amount at 25k miles when I drained that fluid, and even that car had better shifting after the change. Our '04 Pilot was the same at 25k.

If it were me I wouldn't let the tranny situation steer me away from the vehicle. On the other hand, make sure the buy-out price is decent, compared to other pilots of the same era, to decide what to do. We have considered buying our '04 Pilot when the 3 year lease gets up next summer, but the buy-out is about $20k ('04 EX-L/RES with about 40k at end of lease, estimated). If I look at an '03 with that appx mileage and same features, $20k is just about the private party KBB value, so it'd be close - but you have to be sure that's what you want to do. Typically I lease my cars with $0 capital cost reduction for as low montly payment as I can for 3 yrs or less, so I just walk at the end and do it again. I always have a monthly payment, but never any out-of-warranty issues - just works for us. The '04 was 3 yrs, and the '06 is 42 months - the '04 had $0 cap cost red, the '06 had $300 cap cost reduction.

andy

[ducatiduke]

Good god!!!!!! I changed the tranny fluid and it was working fine for a day and then it started doing this “bucking” or “skipping” thing that I have been reading about on this site all over the place…. Uggggggggg…. It only happens when I have it in D and not in 3rd gear, so it really seems like it is a tranny issue…

Here now is my dilemma… What should I do? 1) Trade it in for a different car (I am getting calls from the dealer to trade it in for a new car early – supposedly there it is a sought after car. They said in one conversation, that they would pay off the remaining lease and make it worth my while)… 2) Go in and work with the dealer and see what I can figure out. It is at 34k miles and my thought would be they would work with me, but you never know… 3) See if I can purchase it and pick up and extended warranty and turn around and have them replace the tranny with the warranty (not my idea, someone at work suggested this and I am not too wild about this because it is not what you call honest)… 4) Drive around in 3rd gear for the next few months and walk away from it or 5) Ignore it and see what happens.

The sh*tty thing is, this is a great car EX-L RES and is in really good condition, with low miles… I was planning on purchasing at the end of the lease, but now I am not sure what I want to do. If I could get this tranny issue fixed (for free because these trannys are bad) I probably do so.

What does everyone think?

[Sunday Rider]

I change the tranny fluid every other oil change (started this last year). The fluid always looks brown compared to the newer fluid.
Try changing it again since you bought a case.

You have to consider that you have paid a lot of depreciation on the old Pilot, and you would start again on the new one.

Go talk to the dealer and see how much the new one will cost you. Come back and post here and someone will gave you an opinion(s), no shortage of that here.

You have to also consider that if you keep it and go the extended warranty method, you have to take into account that cost vs the new one.

I have 124,000 km (75,000 miles), and the tranny has been fine. But I think that these trannies are hit and miss. I am not sure but I would say there has been less than a dozen problems with trannies for posters, since I have been around.

[robrecht]

Originally posted by ducatiduke
3) See if I can purchase it and pick up and extended warranty and turn around and have them replace the tranny with the warranty (not my idea, someone at work suggested this and I am not too wild about this because it is not what you call honest)…

I don't see anything dishonest about this approach. Honda offers a warranty on their product and charges you more when yor car has more miles on it. It's just a consumer decision for you without a moral component. If Honda had sold you the car, rather than lease it, they might feel a moral obligation to offer you an extended warranty for free for selling you a possibly defective car. If you don't buy the car, they also have a moral obligation to not sell the car to anyone else until they are reasonably sure it's fixed.

That said, I wouldn't follow this approach because I wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of planning for a tranny replacement. One advantage of a lease, is that you can walk away from a car that has problems. You'd paid extra for that option, I'd take advantage of it at this point. Plus, I'd also like to have the side curtain airbags and stability control of an '06, which should be fairly well discounted pretty soon--of course, you'd have to put up with the uglier grill!

[ducatiduke]

Ok for sh*ts and giggles I just changed the tranny fluid again this morning... The fluid came out a little less dark than the first time, but nowhere close to the color of new fluid. Maybe it will fix everything… Yea right! (The terrible this is I am getting really good at doing this with the my 1-quart pump and long filler hose, etc). I will let everyone know. Thanks again for everyone’s help and advise.

[archie]

Are you within warranty? I thought I read 34K miles. I can't tell if you are over 36 months. Maybe the dealer will fix it free if just recently out of warranty. The dealer if they are decent should recognize that routine service ATF change is 45K miles, severe at 30K so your atf change is not late. And that Honda has a history of serious trans problems. Be polite and firm about your disappointment about the trans failure and that you bought Honda for reliability (that you did not get). Search other posts how they got the manufacturer to pay for trans failures just after the warranty expired.

[ducatiduke]

yep at 34k and change for milage...

UPDATE!!!!!!!!

The tranny fluid change out this morning seems to be working well... My first trip did not have any "bucking"... I am at a meeting now and will post an update of my trip home with more details. (Got to love laptops + wireless) esp. on boring Saturday meetings...

[Sunday Rider]

One more thing to consider is the EGR valve. It seems to have similar symptoms to what you are describing. But I think it has to throw out an error code before they do the TSB repair on it. Not sure if you searched that here yet.

Just in case your meeting is still boring you.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by ducatiduke
Ok for sh*ts and giggles I just changed the tranny fluid again this morning... The fluid came out a little less dark than the first time, but nowhere close to the color of new fluid. Maybe it will fix everything… Yea right! (The terrible this is I am getting really good at doing this with the my 1-quart pump and long filler hose, etc). I will let everyone know. Thanks again for everyone’s help and advise.

You are supposed to do a "Triple change" of the ATF if it is thought to be bad.

[rocky]

Originally posted by N_Jay


You are supposed to do a "Triple change" of the ATF if it is thought to be bad.

A tranny fluid change usually drains at most one third of the total fluid inside the box

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by rocky


A tranny fluid change usually drains at most one third of the total fluid inside the box

Generally true. My point was the according the the service manual you should change the fluid three times (some read it as four times) when you suspect bad or contaminated fluid.

[jay]

Originally posted by N_Jay


Generally true. My point was the according the the service manual you should change the fluid three times (some read it as four times) when you suspect bad or contaminated fluid.

Here's what the Owner's Manual says.