What Brand of Oil Do You Use?

[WestCoastPilot]

I just bought a 2004 Pilot a few months ago. I was wondering what kind of oil is recommended for these vehicles. I've used Mobil 1 in my other cars, but these new ones seem to have tighter tolerance for engine parts (use 10W-20??) and 7500miles oil change intervals. I've never put anything "20" oil in my cars. Again, the last time I bought a new car was...wait who's in office right now.....

[kemosabe]

Check out this poll from a while back about brands of oil...

...and welcome to honda-pilot.org!!!

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by WestCoastPilot
I just bought a 2004 Pilot a few months ago. I was wondering what kind of oil is recommended for these vehicles. I've used Mobil 1 in my other cars, but these new ones seem to have tighter tolerance for engine parts (use 10W-20??) and 7500miles oil change intervals. I've never put anything "20" oil in my cars. Again, the last time I bought a new car was...wait who's in office right now.....

Conventional 5W20 is fine

Some insist on using synthetic. Mobile-1 has a 0W20 that is the recommended oil.

Much has been written and argued here on the topic.
The search feature should give you HOURS of reading.

[kemosabe]

Originally posted by N_Jay


Conventional 5W20 is fine

[ S N I P P E D ]

...as opposed to UNconventional 5W20...

[hitecdan]

I've been using Motorcraft's 5W-20 in the Pilot. It's a semi-synthetic and it's less then $2 a quart at Walmart.

Pennzoil just came out with a fully synthetic 5W-20, but the only place I've seen it is at the local Honda dealership.

[john802]

Originally posted by hitecdan
...Pennzoil just came out with a fully synthetic 5W-20, but the only place I've seen it is at the local Honda dealership.

Autozone and pep boys carries it, but I still use Mobil 1 0W-20 since I can get it at a lower cost at work.

[hitecdan]

Did I miss something here? I'm curious why you are using a 0W-20. Another poster said it was a "recommended oil". I have an 03 Pilot and the manual says 5W-20 under all conditions. Is their a different recommendation for Canadian or newer Pilots?

[Bugshu]

Most 5 winter oils should protect your car down to about -20 degrees. Most 0 winter oils should protect your car to about -40 degrees.

Usint a 0(W)inter-20 oil should give you a bit better winter protection should you want to start your Pilot at -30 degrees.

Some people believe and I guess that Im one of them that additional cold start protection will assist in allowing the oil to flow nicely even at slight warmer conditions such as 0 degrees. Still, 20 viscosity is pretty thin and the oil should flow quickly in a hurry regardless of temperature once started. I find that the Pilot warms up quickly and doesnt need long warm up times like other vehicles that specify 30 - 40 viscosity oil.

Happy Piloting All,



Bugshu

[hitecdan]

Well, it's not getting down to -30 out here in California any time soon. I've been using a 5W-20 in the cooler months have used a 10W-30 Mobil One in the warmer months. Seems to work just fine. Have not noticed any piston slapping or knocking on cold start ups using the 10W-30. Maybe a 1 mpg drop, but that's about it. My owner's manual says nothing about using 0W-20, that's why I'm asking. Does Honda spec out a different viscosity for -20F or lower?

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by hitecdan
Well, it's not getting down to -30 out here in California any time soon. I've been using a 5W-20 in the cooler months have used a 10W-30 Mobil One in the warmer months. Seems to work just fine. Have not noticed any piston slapping or knocking on cold start ups using the 10W-30. Maybe a 1 mpg drop, but that's about it. My owner's manual says nothing about using 0W-20, that's why I'm asking. Does Honda spec out a different viscosity for -20F or lower?

No Honda does not, but the issue has been discussed at length on this and other Honda forum.

One more time (hopefully clear enough for everyone).

The reason that 0W20 is an acceptable substitute for 5W20 is that over the ENTIRE operating temperature range, 0W20 oil will never be thicker at the low temperatures, nor thinner at high temperatures than the recommended 5W20.

In other words if we assume that 5w20 cold (-20) is the thickest the engine is ever designed to start with, AND 5W20 hot (212F/250F) is the thinnest the engine is ever designed to to run with 0W20 will always meet the needs of the engine.

10W30 DOES NOT meet this requirement AT ALL.

During cold starts (even 32F) 10W30 is may be thicker than 5W20 at much colder temperatures, and is probably thicker than the engine is designed for. This is especially critical during startup, when a thicker oil can take significantly longer to reach all parts of the engine.
A thicker oil will also cause higher oil pressures during startup and may lead to the filter bypass valve opening and passing unfiltered oil to the engine. These higher pressures at the pump may also open the oil galley bypass valve and allow oil to drain back to the pan with LESS total flow to the working pats of the engine.

Honda has specifically said NOT to use 10W oil.

Yes, this is unlikely in California, but are you going to change the oil before taking that trip to the mountains? Or before the weather changes? If you put in 10W30 in the "warmer month" of August, the next change (at 3 months) is November. (Do you always change every 3 months?)

The problems you are referring to like piston slapping or knocking are signs that damage has occurred. They won't show up until later in the life of the engine, even if the damage may be occurring now.

[john802]

Originally posted by hitecdan
Well, it's not getting down to -30 out here in California any time soon. I've been using a 5W-20 in the cooler months have used a 10W-30 Mobil One in the warmer months. Seems to work just fine. Have not noticed any piston slapping or knocking on cold start ups using the 10W-30. Maybe a 1 mpg drop, but that's about it. My owner's manual says nothing about using 0W-20, that's why I'm asking. Does Honda spec out a different viscosity for -20F or lower?

Instead of 10W-30, why not use Mobil 1 0W-30 for the late spring to summer months.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by john802


Instead of 10W-30, why not use Mobil 1 0W-30 for the late spring to summer months.

Why not use Mobile 0W20 all year long?

[hitecdan]

Yes, this is unlikely in California, but are you going to change the oil before taking that trip to the mountains? Or before the weather changes? If you put in 10W30 in the "warmer month" of August, the next change (at 3 months) is November. (Do you always change every 3 months?)

Yes yes and yes. I change the oil every 3,000 miles, 4,000 if I'm using a synthetic. If we're planning a long trip and it's with in a 1,000 miles of the next oil change, I'll change it early. 5W-20 vs. 10W-30 debates have been raging in forums like this since 5W-20 was introduced. Check out some of the Ford forums. What design changes did Honda do to the engine so that it can no longer run a 10W-30 oil? Was 5W-20 introduced just to help bump up the fuel mileage on engines? What will be the long term effects of using a thin oil like 5W-20, especially when towing?

A multi-viscosity oil is a base oil with polymers added to achieve the multi-viscosity effect. A 5W-20 oil is a base 5 weight oil with polymers that are shaped like little coils. As the coil shaped polymers warm up, they start to uncoil. The longer polymers simulate a higher weight oil. Since higher weight oils have longer hydrocarbon chains and thus higher viscosities, this is how the polymers simulate this. All the lubricating properties of a 5 weight oil with the viscosity properties of a 20 weight oil (note the viscosity properties of a 20 weight oil, not the lubricating properties of a 20 weight oil). Also, the bigger the spread between the cold and hot number, the more polymers are needed. So in order to get a 0 weight oil to act like a 20 weight oil, more polymers are needed then if you started with a 5 weight oil. Also, the polymers break down faster then the oil. So a 0W-20 will become a 0W-10 faster the a 5W-20 will. Honda may not recommend the use of a 10W-30, but I don't see anywhere in my manual the use of a 0W-20. I can see using a 0W-20 if I was driving around in sub-zero temps, but for year round usage I wouldn't. Oil is present in the bearing spaces before you cold start an engine. Granted, not as much as when oil is flowing, but some is there. So how much faster does a 0W-20 flow vs. a 5W-20 under cold engine staring conditions? Are we talking seconds or milli-seconds here? If you really want to know how your oil is doing, have it analyzed. blackstone-labs.com is a good site to check out. I haven't sent in a sample from my Pilot, but I do from my diesel powered truck from time to time. The results can be found here.

The problems you are referring to like piston slapping or knocking are signs that damage has occurred. They won't show up until later in the life of the engine, even if the damage may be occurring now.

Knocking sounds at cold start up have been associated with too thick of an oil being used. Flow ability being the main factor. You'll need to use a thinner oil. If your using the correct oil and having knocking sounds, then you've got a real problem.

Bottom line is most people don't even think about their engine oil. The fact that we do hopefully means our vehicles will live long happy lives.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by hitecdan

. . . . Honda may not recommend the use of a 10W-30, but I don't see anywhere in my manual the use of a 0W-20. . . .

Knocking sounds at cold start up have been associated with too thick of an oil being used. Flow ability being the main factor. You'll need to use a thinner oil. If your using the correct oil and having knocking sounds, then you've got a real problem.
. . .

You have obviously done a lot of reading on oils. It should be easy to understand that a 0W20 oil across the operating temperature range we are talking about is ALWAYS within the viscosity range of a 5W20 oil over the same temperature range.

This is simply NOT TRUE of a 10W20 or 10W30 oil!


As for knocking, if you are getting knocking in a modern engine with ANY oil, something is allready wrong!

[hitecdan]

Originally posted by N_Jay


You have obviously done a lot of reading on oils. It should be easy to understand that a 0W20 oil across the operating temperature range we are talking about is ALWAYS within the viscosity range of a 5W20 oil over the same temperature range.

This is simply NOT TRUE of a 10W20 or 10W30 oil!

Well, I think as far as operating temperature range, I would think that 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 all criss cross each others temp range at some point or another. And when we say operating temperature range, I'm assuming that means the ambient temperature the engine will be operating it. The 0W-20 can operate at a colder temp then a 10W-30 and a 10W-30 can operate at a higher temp range then a 0W-20, but not the other way around. Different manufactures some times recommend different weights for different operating temps. But these recommendations vary from engine type to engine type and manufacture. For example the oil recommendation for my truck is to use a 15W-40 for temps from 30F or above. It's OK to use a 10W-30 in the same temp range, but don't plan on doing any towing. -10F to 30 use a 10W-30, -10 or lower use a 0W-30. The point is different weights are used for different temp ranges, generally thinner weights for colder temps and thicker weights for higher temps. And I've seen these same types of charts for other engines as well. I know Ford has mandated to use of 5W-20 for almost all it's gas engines built after 5W-20 was introduced under pain of kissing your engine warranty good bye. Honda is another big pusher of 5W-20. From what I've read it's not because they made some design change to their engines, but because the EPA and other government agencies are pushing higher mileage standards. Uh oh, I can hear the black helicopters hovering over my house right now............

Since Honda only recommends one weight of oil, 5W-20, then who can really say a 0W-20 or a 10W-30 is OK to use in a given temp range? Ask your dealer and he'll no doubt quote the manual. Now if you can track down the engineers that designed the engine and ask them some off the record questions, then maybe................