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Old 08-01-2011, 09:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Most effective way to fix rear camber?

I have a 2003 exl and my rear tires are wearing on the inside(negative camber). Seems like this is a pretty common problem the older Pilots, suspension sag, worn bushings,etc... Best I can tell there are a couple of potential solutions.

1. Adjustable aftermarket control arms(SPC) they are about $100x2.
2. Air springs(firestone,air lift) I like the firestone product better. $90
3. Replace factory springs and bushings. Springs are about $90 bushings($?)
4. Nothing which would mean tires would not last quite as long.

I was wondering what other people with the same problem have done to fix this problem. I know the control arms would for sure fix the problem but they are expensive. I am kind of leaning towards the air springs because they have a dual purpose of leveling the suspension when towing, but am not entirely convinced they would solve the camber issues. What do you guys think
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Check out our site sponsor RockAuto.com. Just ordered Moog adjustable camber arms and KYB shocks. Prices are good and a 5% discount as well for forum members. Lastly super fast shipping !
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Contrary to common sense and whatever the tire shops tell you, Inner edge wear is NOT caused by camber. It's caused by bad toe alignment settings. My Civic runs -2.5* of negative camber (way off factory spec) and have no trouble with edge wear. Get the toe set correctly and you'll be fine. And don't forget to rotate your tires every oil change.

As bushings wear and suspension sags, your static toe settings change. This is why it's good to get an alignment every year if you drive a lot.

Good luck!
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I thought toe caused feathering which is different than what I am experiencing? I am experiencing inside tire lugs wearing out faster than the outside tire lugs. Also the vehicle tracks perfectly straight.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/tirewear_chart.gif
In the link above my tire look just like the one showing a camber issue.
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Contrary to common sense and whatever the tire shops tell you, Inner edge wear is NOT caused by camber. It's caused by bad toe alignment settings. My Civic runs -2.5* of negative camber (way off factory spec) and have no trouble with edge wear. Get the toe set correctly and you'll be fine. And don't forget to rotate your tires every oil change.

As bushings wear and suspension sags, your static toe settings change. This is why it's good to get an alignment every year if you drive a lot.

Good luck!
This is not correct. Inner tire wear can be caused by toe and/or camber. There are dozens of threads on here that talk about the rear tires wearing on the inner portion due to suspension sagging from age or when carrying loads.

Rear Tire Wear Problem

http://www.piloteers.org/forums/14-p...uldnt-way.html

Rear Camber on 2006 Pilot 4WD
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Old: 2005 EX-L NAV
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jamesgarner83 View Post
I have a 2003 exl and my rear tires are wearing on the inside(negative camber). Seems like this is a pretty common problem the older Pilots, suspension sag, worn bushings,etc... Best I can tell there are a couple of potential solutions.

1. Adjustable aftermarket control arms(SPC) they are about $100x2.
2. Air springs(firestone,air lift) I like the firestone product better. $90
3. Replace factory springs and bushings. Springs are about $90 bushings($?)
4. Nothing which would mean tires would not last quite as long.

I was wondering what other people with the same problem have done to fix this problem. I know the control arms would for sure fix the problem but they are expensive. I am kind of leaning towards the air springs because they have a dual purpose of leveling the suspension when towing, but am not entirely convinced they would solve the camber issues. What do you guys think
Here's how I look at it. If you have too much negative camber with no load, then I would get the adjustable control arms. If your camber is fine at zero load, but you regularly carry a load (or do any towing) that sags the rear and causes negative camber, then get the air springs. HTH.
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Old: 2005 EX-L NAV

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Old 08-02-2011, 04:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The car is supposed to have negative camber stock. zero is not ideal. The standard for 03-08 AWD pilot rear is -.5* +/- .75*. That means it's okay to be anywhere from +.25 to -1.25*, but -.5* is the ideal (a little more for FWD @ -.67*). If your not within those specs, something is wrong (probably bushings or a bent arm). That means you don't need or even want adjustable arms. I would much rather figure out where the problem is and fix it. If your lower control arm bushings are worn and your replacing the upper control arm to get camber within spec, you've still got bad/worn/loose lower control arm bushings.

If you go for an alignment and your camber is within spec, just get the toe set and rotate tires every oil change. That will fix your problem. Either way you won't know unless you go for an alignment. Maybe you could get a lifetime alignment someplace that allows you to keep coming back. I think they just charge you double and your allowed to come back every so often.

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Old 08-02-2011, 04:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I guess I should note that I have not had the car on an allignment machine yet to actually confirm that it is a camber problem. I am kind of guessing based off of the tire wear I am seeing and what others have reported here. I have inspected the suspension and do not see any damage to any of the bushing or control arms, they have probably seen better days but there is no noticeable play or bend in any of the suspension components.

I am thinking it might be best to get the control arms first, then take it to the alignment shop to save from having to get two alignments. The lifetime alignment thing sounds cool I will have to ask around. Should pay for itself. I am not sure if an alignment shop will check alignment for free and then let you decide if you want them to align it or not. The control arms look pretty simple to install just need a torque wrench and ball joint popper should be a good DIY. Best I can tell my story sound identical to the above posts, seems like people have had good results with the adjustable control arms.

Last edited by jamesgarner83; 08-02-2011 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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There are no ball joints in the rear suspension. The only thing to look out for is frozen bolts. Due to corrosion, the bolts in the rear end tend to rust solid to the inner metal sleeve of the rubber bushings. If the bolt seems hard to undo, WATCH OUT! If you torque it too much the head will just pop off and you'll be replacing more than the arm. The trick is to use heat (oxy torch), and an impact gun to break the rust loose.

I once broke an LCA bolt on my Civic and I had to replace the shock as well as the lower control arm.

If all comes apart easily, it's a good idea to coat the bolts including the non-threaded section in anti-seize grease when reassembling. This will keep it from happening later on.

And lastly, it is very VERY important how you tighten & torque your suspension bolts. All bolts that go through the center of a pivoting bushing should be left loose during final assembly. They should not be fully tightened & torqued until the vehicle is on the ground with it's full weight on the wheels. This avoids any unwanted twist being applied to the rubber. If you tighten the bolts with the suspension drooping, the bushings will twist up when you lower the car down to the ground. This causes them to stay twisted all the time and fail prematurely.

Enjoy the work.
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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By ball joint popper I mean pickle fork, I broke a lower control arm bolt on my integra as well installing lowering springs long ago. Had to have it drilled out. I will definatlly have air tools and torch on standby. Hopefully they will come right out fingers crossed.

I wish hondas came factory with rear camber adjustment. Looks like a real cheap part. I guess they have their reasoning, but it would save me a lot of time and money right now, oh well.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesgarner83 View Post
By ball joint popper I mean pickle fork...
I got one of these from Amazon for pretty cheap. Won't damage the boots like a pickle fork does...

S & G Tool Aid 61900 Lifter Joint Rod/Ball Tie

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Old 08-14-2011, 07:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I purchased the Moog adjustable control arms due to a slight inner tire wear situation I noticed on my rear tires.
Upon installing the Moog adjustable control arms I noticed that they had the SPC brand stamped on them and
are $140 pair ( much cheaper than the SPC brand ).
The installation is pretty basic if you have some basic wrenching skill set and tools.
One of my rear shocks was definitely leaking, so I'm glad I ordered those and installed them.

The KYB shocks are definitely much firmer than stock and now there is definitely more rake in the rear of the Pilot now.
Took the vehicle to Firestone the next day and purchased the lifetime alignment for $150. This is a bargain for me as
I plan on keeping the Pilot for awhile.

The manager mentioned that he's seeing more Pilots with the adjustable arms and it makes alignment better.
All I can say is my Pilot tracks much better now and I should get more wear out of my tires till I replace them.

Hope this helps jamesgarner83
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Last edited by cofetym; 08-14-2011 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Awesome! I will have to check out the Moogs quite a bit cheaper than SPC. I am probably going to wait till winter, and get new tires and the control arms at the same time. Found a place that will do lifetime alignment for $139. Thanks for the info.
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