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Old 10-27-2010, 01:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I d to take my lot to the dealership today for a different problem and I almost asked them to look @ it regarding the vibration I sometimes experience, but I didn't.

I installed my own navi unit (Pioneer) and after a year the radio stopped dimming when I turn on the hedlights. I dissconnected it and tried to troubleshoot it. I think I found where the issue is (After market harness kit) but decided to touch the dimming wire with the illumination radio wire and I felt the wire get hotter in seconds then saw smoke. Since that day, my dash lights has been out, parking lights out 2, when the dinging reminder when you leave the headlights on doesn't work anymore. I checked everything including the fuses. I researched it online too and found some people claiming that its the Multiplex. I bought a Honda Multiplex for $60 and replaced it myself (Pain) but nothing was fixed.
I finally gave up and turned it to the dealer. They charged my $96.11 and what was the problem.......a blown fuse on the passenger side. I swear I checked it, but found nothing, but I guess I didn't look hard enough and thats possible.
I was going to ask them to look @ the torque converter, but they told me that it would be another $95 to look @ that so I passed.

Why am I telling you this.......because I am pissed and feel stupid.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Vibration issue

Guys, Google Pilot Torque Converter or vibration problem. I did it because I am having the exact same issue. Guess what? A lot of Pilots and MDXs are having the issue because it is a crappy transmission. The torque converter is the culprit, but if it is not fixed asap, it kills the tranny. The new tranny costs $4500 from a dealer. Honda offers a "goodwill" gesture and drops this down to $2000, but this is still more than we should be spending on a poor design. We need to get on a class action lawsuit or something to get Honda to reimburse us for this. If I really wanted to have this problem I would have spent less and gotten another car. These transmissions should be made to last the life of the car, not less than 70k miles when I first noticed an issue.

I don't know how to get Honda to own up to the problem, they recalled all MDXs and Pilots upto 2004 with a Safety Recall for a revision to the oil cooler line which may or may not fix the problem. My vehicle did not fall into the recall, but there are plenty of complaints with the NHTSA and on Edmunds...
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The oil jet (return line fix) has nothing to do with the torque converter.

So now the question is. (since I have felt the problem a couple of times) is it worth replacing just the torque converter, or is that just the beginning of a failed transmission,and with labor and all you just swap out a new/referb unit anyhow?
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Are we 100% sure that its the Torque Converter? Or thats the best guess. If someone had these issues and changed the Torque converter and now don't have the issue, then I am willing to change mine.
I am willing to participate in any class suit against Honda. I will never ever get another Honda again.
P.S. I have a 2008 Honda Accord and this 2006 Pilot LX 4WD
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:32 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Could be the pressure cluch pack solenoids.

It could possibly be the 3rd or 4th clutch pack solenoid. Similar problems and thread over on Acurazine

Very interesting conversation with my transmission builder on the TL - AcuraZine Community
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I'm pretty new to the forum and the pilot in general but from previous experience I'd bet its NOT the torque converter. I doubt the tc even locks up at such a low speed. The tc is more of an issue at highway speeds in high gear. Definitely not the EGR either. It would kick the engine light on.

Since we are guessing I guess motor mounts. They are known to fail and cause bucking. It makes sense because everyone has issues around the same speed 20-25.

For those of you who have the shudder how old are your motor mounts? Thats plural there are 2 or 3.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:00 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Pilot motor mounts and vibration

Well, you're on the right track with the motor mounts too. Several owners have reported a broken motor mount or two. I certainly have one as reported by the dealser who looked at mine. Here is a link to a writeup on Odyssey minivans which share the tranny with Pilots and MDXs.

http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/03/honda-odyssey-owners-report-transmission-troubles-inconsistent-response-from-maker.html

My problems started at about 70k when I noticed this shudder at 25 to 35 mph in 4th gear at low RPM. I assumed that it was just a loose piece of plastic or metal that was vibrating at that particular frequency and would either lay off the gas pedal or just accelerate through it which would cause the problem to go away. Then the problem started getting worse and I finally decided to take it in to a local mechanic. He apparently drove it around for a while before he was able to replicate the problem and then gave me the good news that the tranny was shot. Instead of suggesting I replace it, he thankfully gave me a recall notice for similar trannys on Acura MDXs and Odysseys that ent up to 2004, but did not include my VIN. He suggested I talk to AHM who told me to go have it checked out by the dealer. I called AHM and opened a case with them.

I took it into a dealer expecting to have to go through multiple test drives to replicate the problem, but lo and behold, I didn't have to even join him on the test drive. He easily replicated the problem, identified it as a torque converter issue and a bad motor mount and proceeded to tell me that I needed a new tranny. There are plenty of other Pilot owners who have reported the same issue. The CS agent I spoke to said that they would cover 50% of the cost of the replacement, but this is still $2200 more than I want to spend at this time. If I had known that the tranny would last only 70k miles, I would have paid less for an American vehicle. Heck, my Dodge lasted 90+k with heavy towing in OD without any problems before I sold it to someone who is still driving it with no issues.

I don't know what to do at this point. I suggest you guys file a complaint with the NHTSA as suggested by this blog:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?14@@.f1155f7/176#MSG176

Maybe if there are enough complaints Honda will do something about it. I need to call the CS agent back tomorrow and ask if I went with the 50/50 option they gave me, would I still have the ability to join a class action lawsuit...
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:11 AM   #23 (permalink)
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On my 2004 Pilot EX-L with now 91,000 miles, it is the torque convertor. I just want to keep this thread on track. My pilot has exhibited these symtoms for a little while now and it hasn't worsened nor have I got a blinking "D" or any other check engine-type lights as of yet. In fact, I just towed my 3200 lb boat and trailer 900 miles in "D" as I usually do without a hiccup.

Regarding the engine mounts...I too wondered if it was the mounts so I had my dealer check them out and gave them the full green light to replace them as needed. Turns out they were not cracked or broken at all and they didn't even charge me to look at it. I take the truck there for all my service (which has been minimal - just brakes, tires and oil/filter changes, install trans and ps cooler for towing, etc.)

I am convinced that when you are inbetween a light throttle and off throttle AND are moving a relatively slow speeds but in an overdriven gear (4th or 5th) the shudder is in fact the torque convertor going from locked/unlocked. Back when newer, the torque convertor transition was smoother. It doesn't get "confused" at highway speeds because it generally stays locked up so no transition. It's just slowly wearing out folks!

As much as it would pain me to spend a couple grand on this vehicle now, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a transmission to last 100,000 miles with no issues if you tow frequently (as I do.) However, for some of you it seems you don't tow and you are having issues at well under 100,000 miles. Now that would irk me!

We are upgrading to the new pilot or a new explorer in the coming months so I just hope mine lasts a little longer without issue. I am towing twice in the coming weekend and taking at least two long trips inbetween now and March so cross my fingers!!!
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:40 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walhaddi82 View Post
yeah let us know what results you get. I hope 1 of us finds the issue and gets it fixed.
I was thinking the same way today when I was driving. The roads are not the best roads here in MI and sometimes I feel it while doing 40 mph, but I am not sure because of the small bumps in the road, but I notice it BIG TIME only sometimes when going easy on the pedal between 20-30 mph
Just a little update...

I'm not sure that my issue has been solved. The more intense shudder incidents I experienced were intermittent. I drove around for about 1k miles or so on the Pilot to try to observe it. My D light never flashed over this period of time. I also drove my wife's Accord a few times to see if there was an issue with the smoothness of the roads; her car didn't have the intense shudder, but it still had a bit of vibration over the same roads. Also, other factors such as temperature swings and tire pressure have an effect on the amount of vibration I feel. However, since I first reported it, I don't recall my pilot having any more intense shuddering incidents.

This past Friday, my D light flashed halfway into a 2 hour trip. The car still drove normally. The D light has not flashed since then. When I called the service writer at the Honda dealer on Monday, he told me that they wouldn't be able to read any codes if the D light was not flashing.

I did an ATF drain and fill on Sunday using Honda Z-1 since it was due anyway. The fluid was dark, but it smelled normal, not "burnt". There was also the normal thin black layer of film on the drain plug magnet. My Pilot still drives normally after the fluid change, and it feels like the upshifts and downshifts are maybe a hair smoother. The small amount of vibration while driving is still there, but it's hard to tell if it's from the transmission or suspension with the changes in temperature and the different routes I have taken. Plus, the accelerometer in my head probably isn't calibrated as well as some of you guys .

I'm thinking about doing another drain and fill on the transmission not too far in the future just to get more fresh fluid in there. The process is relatively cheap and something I can do myself. I'm also considering to replace both the 3rd and 4th gear pressure sensors like some of you and the TL owners have done both as a preventative measure and for the reasons I just stated above. I'll also wait and see if the D light flashes again. I've already started looking for reputable transmission shops in my area in case my transmission will need a major repair or replacement.

I'm sorry if I haven't been able to provide any definitive solutions at this time. If anything else happens, I'll post an update. (it might be a while though).
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:15 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
So now the question is. (since I have felt the problem a couple of times) is it worth replacing just the torque converter, or is that just the beginning of a failed transmission,and with labor and all you just swap out a new/referb unit anyhow?
Probably depends on how much you like your Pilot, how much longer you plan on keeping it, and how much money/work you're willing to put into it.

If you know that the problem lies solely with the torque converter, you could probably just have that replaced. I'm guessing that it costs a good amount less than a replacement transmission. The problem would be fixed and the TC would be new, but in the back of your mind you know that the rest of the transmission has seen lots of use.

Or you can shell out the extra $ for a replacement unit with a longer projected life and a bit more peace of mind...

If you're still trying to decide, I'd think that consulting with a good transmission shop would help you come to an answer.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:30 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Torque Converter

Quote:
Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
The oil jet (return line fix) has nothing to do with the torque converter.

So now the question is. (since I have felt the problem a couple of times) is it worth replacing just the torque converter, or is that just the beginning of a failed transmission,and with labor and all you just swap out a new/referb unit anyhow?

I'm not an expert on this although I have been doing a lot of research into it. If you look at the bulletin tha was put out by AHM, their first recommendation was to replace the TC and check to see if that resolved the problem, so instead of waiting, my rcommendation would be to go get that done and try to save your tranny. I guess like you it didn't bother me so much to go have it looked at and get fixed, so now it is a bigger problem. Maybe you can call Honda CS and get them to cover some of the cost of replacing the torque converter.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:52 PM   #27 (permalink)
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This past Friday, my D light flashed halfway into a 2 hour trip...

Sounds like you need to replace that 3rd and 4th gear pressure sensor. The car is talking to you. It shouldn't have to scream to get you to listen...

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Old 11-17-2010, 01:56 PM   #28 (permalink)
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What is the labor to R&R the transaxle just to replace a torque converter, compared with a rebuild minus the core.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:03 PM   #29 (permalink)
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What is the labor to R&R the transaxle just to replace a torque converter, compared with a rebuild minus the core.
I don't work in that kind of business so don't count on my answer. But I'd guess that in terms of total cost it might be around half to 2/3, loosely based on what I've read/seen on other forums.

I was also casually looking over the internet for transmission shops in my area and have driven past this place a couple of times: Level 10 Performance Transmission Systems Bulletproof Transmissions,Supercharger
I'm trying to find out their reputation. I know that they specialize in performance transmissions, but I'm sure they could perform any transmission fixes I may potentially need in the future and feel confident about the reliability.
They have a listing of their Honda parts and packages here: Honda Supercharger | Honda Torque Converter | Honda Performance Transmission
A new TC is $600 without labor. I'll just throw in the number of $100/hr for labor. Anyone know how many hours are needed for replacement? 10? 12?
And for comparison purposes, their Odyssey complete rebuild package is $3300.

These figures may not be accurate in your case, but maybe they can be a starting point. Your local transmission shop would of course give you a much better answer .
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by samelcamel View Post
Sounds like you need to replace that 3rd and 4th gear pressure sensor. The car is talking to you. It shouldn't have to scream to get you to listen...
I was already considering it, since it is a relatively cheap and easy task.
After reading up on various forums on the design of the pressure sensors, how many cycles they go through, and how far out of spec they can end up through use over this many miles, I think I'll be ordering them pretty soon.
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