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Old 01-05-2010, 09:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default rough ride with VTM-4

I rarely use the VTM-4 feature in my '04 Pilot because I typically avoid driving in snow. However the other day I took it out to run a last minute errand (in about 2 inches of snow) and experienced a very rough ride. After driving a few feet from the driveway, I dropped it into D2 and engage the VTM-4 lock. What I felt next is hard to explain. As I slowly accelerated it felt as it the vehicle was bucking violently. I immediately disengaged it and continued on without the VTM-4. Any advice? I am fanatical about having my fluids changed so its not due to lack of proper attention on my part.
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Turning with the VTM locked wil often cause slipping/bucking

Did you check your tires. Mismatched or a low tire can cause similar issues.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: rough ride with VTM-4

Quote:
Originally posted by coeng73
I am fanatical about having my fluids changed so its not due to lack of proper attention on my part.
Do you take it to Honda to have the VTM-4 fluid changed and if not, are you sure the shop used the correct fluid?
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Assuming that you turned as you left your driveway and while turning, stopped, activated VTM4, what you likely experienced is Torque wind up.

The tires at the rear were now locked together trying to turn at the same speed. However as you were turning and as a result, the inner wheel wanted to turn at a different speed to the outer wheel.

All that engine torque has to go somewhere and the car relied on the tires to slip/spin to disssipate the built up torque causing the bucking you experienced.

Two inches of snow is NOT enough to need to activate VTM4. Just drive.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by rocky
Two inches of snow is NOT enough to need to activate VTM4. Just drive.
Forgive me for being ignorant but when should VTM4 really be used then? When I owned my '94 Explorer, I would activate 4x4 in any snow since it was rear-wheel drive. It made such a difference. I just assumed VTM4 was a fancy name for 4x4. Again, forgive me for being ignorant, I was just trying out a feature I never really used before. As I understand it now it deactivates once you reach 19 MPH or something like that.

What I did first was back out of the driveway (end of cul-de-sac), turn around and drive to next block. Then I stopped, dropped it into D2, pressed the VTM button, and then lightly pressed the gas pedal. Right away it felt like I was drove over something. The tire pressures were just adjusted the day before. The dealer always changes my fluids. I pray to god they used VTM4 fluid. I assume they wouldn't make that type of mistake.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by coeng73


...when should VTM4 really be used then?
I was just trying out a feature I never really used before. As I understand it now it deactivates once you reach 19 MPH or something like that.

Once again, we need to distinguish between the VTM-4 system and pressing the VTM-4 lock button.

The VTM-4 system is always active and proportions power to the rear wheels automatically:

1) Whenever the throttle is depressed, based upon vehicle speed, the amount of acceleration and which gear the transmission is in.

2) Whenever wheel slip is detected, according to the amount and the rate of change in wheel slip.

-OR-

3) If you depress the VTM-Lock button after shifting into first, second or reverse gears and the vehicle speed is below 18-mph.

Think of the "VTM-4 LOCK" button as being labeled "PUSH ONLY WHEN STUCK".
Otherwise, just leave the VTM-4 System to its own automated devices.
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by coeng73
Forgive me for being ignorant but when should VTM4 really be used then?
You really need to spend more time understanding your car, starting with reading the OM. If you did, you'd see the that VTM-4 lock button is to be used only if stuck or in a situation where you are likely to get stuck. Using VTM-4 lock in routine snow driving is not recommended and just a brief period of driving on dry pavement with VTM-4 lock engaged can completely ruin your differential.

AWD/4WD systems vary tremendously between different cars and you can't assume they should be operated the same.

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Old 01-06-2010, 05:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I should have been clearer in my earlier post that I was talking that you activated the VTM4 LOCK. You'd never experience that bucking leaving the VTM4 unlocked allowing the all wheel drive system do its thing.

The OM (owners manual) has full details on how and when to use VTM4 lock. There is also a sticker on the headliner visible if you pull down the driver's visor if you need an instant 30 second reminder.
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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duh, i feel like an idiot (smacking forehead)...
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by coeng73
duh, i feel like an idiot (smacking forehead)...
No, this is when you feel like a idiot.

Broken axle on a suburban in 4x4 low during a snow storm. Almost made it home on 3 wheels.
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by coeng73
duh, i feel like an idiot (smacking forehead)...
Don't.

How many of us have actually read and understood the manual?

We have smilies for some fun stuff
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by rocky


Don't.

How many of us have actually read and understood the manual?

We have smilies for some fun stuff
Reading and understanding are totally different animals!!!

Each time I get a new vehicle, I "skim" the manual looking for anything unique or critical. Later, if questions come up, I read in detail the appropriate section.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by colorider
Each time I get a new vehicle, I "skim" the manual looking for anything unique or critical. Later, if questions come up, I read in detail the appropriate section.
Of course if you were like Jay, you would read it cover to cover, and then buy a new car just to get some new reading material.
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay

Of course if you were like Jay, you would read it cover to cover, and then buy a new car just to get some new reading material.

I'm no saint when it comes to new cars/motorcycles. On one of my motorcycle forums I've been called a "bike slut" more than once............

Actually more than many times................


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Old 01-08-2011, 10:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default same rough ride

I cannot remember the last time locked in the VTM on my 03, so tonight I decided to switch it on (dry pavement on a culdesac). I got the bucking that coeng73 experienced. It kind of felt like a loose bowling ball in the cargo area hitting the back of the rear seat on a hard stop. It only happened a couple of times, but it was very noticeable. Also, when turning at the end of the street, it almost felt like my power steering was gone. Once VTM was cut off, all was back to normal.

I got concerned and did a Google search, which lead me to this thread. I cannot believe the similarities, and the fact that this thread is so fresh. Now I know why it behaved like it did, and to leave it the heck alone until I'm out in "VTM-rated" terrain.

It has been a long time since I have visited this forum, and it is great to see some familiar members still helping folks out. Thanks!
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