Front End Chatter

[dustino8]

I'm looking for some advice from the mechanical troubleshooter type, which I know there are quite a few on this board. I'll start with some background on my problem.

I purchased my '03 with 80,000 km on it in April of '05. Within a week, I noticed that the front end "chattered" over rough pavement or washboard gravel. The noise was very subtle, and my wife couldn't notice it. I complained to the dealer and they replaced the front struts as they were leaking. The problem persisted so I took the Pilot to another dealer, and they replaced a tie-rod end (I actually got the original dealer who I bought it from to cover this also). I originally thought the noise was reduced, probably b/c I just got new struts and tie-rod ends so everything felt a bit tighter, and at the time it was difficult to reproduce the noise.

Fast forward to today, and the chatter has become more frequent over rough roads, to the point that my wife is now complaining about it. The steering actually feels a little loose now also.

I've looked into the problem myself, checked the steering rack mounting bolts, tie-rods, cv's, stabilizer links, steering column shaft, and retorqued the suspension components. Everything seems tight. The only other items that I haven't checked (that I can think of) are the top strut mount and the stabilizer bar mount bushings. Perhaps when the dealer replaced the struts, the mount was already shot, and they didn't notice or didn't bother to replace? Or, is it possible that this chatter could be caused by an internal problem in the steering rack?

Just looking for some advice before I spend any more time trying to solve this.

[pgedney]

My old 03 had a similar noise and it was the inner tie rod ends.Not sure if that is what you had replaced or it was the outers.could be your noise also?

[gryphon75]

I too am getting a chatter from the front end. I thought it was struts, but have been able to duplicate the problem by rolling down the drivers side window and then rocking the car from side to side. I believe I have narrowed it down to the swaybar bushings as well as the swaybar end links.

[belundy]

Yep, sway bar links. Mine was doing the same thing--like large marbles rattling up front. You can buy Honda or aftermarmket links for about $25 each--I bought Moogs because of the grease zerk. You will need a metric hex (the one built into a socket head) key and an box end wrench to the the old ones off. Penetrating oil may also help if they are a bit rusted. Took me about 40 minutes a side, wheel off to wheel back on.

[dustino8]

Sway bar links, eh? I know they are a pretty straight forward job, but is there any way I can tell their time is over if I pull one off? I checked for play in them just by grabbing it and trying to move it around, and there was nada.

I plan on looking further into this on the weekend, but the chances of me getting parts for a Pilot on the weekend are zero to zilch. So if I do discover the problem, I'll be putting the part back on until I can get the new ones. I'll also check the sway bar bushings as its just a couple bolts to expose them. For some reason, my gut feeling is still saying strut mounts.

I tried gryphon75's advice this evening, and the the noise was not reproduced.

Thanks all for the advice, and keep it coming.

[belundy]

Well, a local Honda specialty house says they have NEVER replaced the strut mounts (tower bearing). If the strut mount was shot you'd hear a *heavy* thunking and it would appear to come from the dash area. The sway bar links are a *very* common failure--Honda issued a TB on it. As for feeling for looseness in the sway links, you'd have to pry on them with a crow bar to simulate suspension forces, or take one off the car and put in a vice and feel for ball-socket looseness. I figure for all the trouble of my time and only $25 for the part, I'd just replace them. It fixed my marble noises....

May auto parts stores carry the Moog links--been very happy with them.

Also had to replace the front and right motor mounts on my '03--that caused a bunch of on/off throttle thunking in stop n go traffic and idle vibration. Front mount was especially shot. Everything up front is nice a quiet, now.

[N_Jay]

My '03 with 122K miles is also starting to pick up a little front end looseness.

Not that unusual, but finding the particular bushing or joint that is bad can be tricky and frustrating.

Sometimes you just have to wait till it is obvious, but often there is more than one cause as all the bushings and joints have wear.

[belundy]

Oh, and according the Honda House the sway bar frame bushings are rarely (maybe never at this point for the relative newness of them) the issue--Honda made those pretty stout. There have been a few cases, according the Honda house of sway bushings making crunching noises because the rubber gets dry, especially in cold weather. Silicone grease pumped between the sway bar and bushing will solve that, at least for a while.

[N_Jay]

Good to know.

The KYB struts are sitting in the garage waiting to get installed.
I hope I don't need strut bearings, but the sway bar ends look cheap and easy enough to do for the hell of it.

[dustino8]

Thanks very much for your reply, belundy. I think I'll be giving the sway bar links a try.

N_Jay, if you do the struts, let us know how the mounts/bearings look. I think it was scubasteve who did his not long ago, and he said the mounts were fine.

I'll keep you updated on whether or not I solve this.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by dustino8
Thanks very much for your reply, belundy. I think I'll be giving the sway bar links a try.

N_Jay, if you do the struts, let us know how the mounts/bearings look. I think it was scubasteve who did his not long ago, and he said the mounts were fine.

I'll keep you updated on whether or not I solve this.

Since the only spring compressors I have are little ones from working on my Prosche, I thing I am going to have a local mechanic do the struts.
I will ask him to look, but I don't think I will get much useful information.

[belundy]

Hey, on the struts, they are a BOOGER to compress because the springs are so stout, and the whole assembly quite heavy. Having a local auto parts store or mechanic compress the springs with a hydraulic jig and re-assemble the strut--get the rod nut on-- is a good idea. The strut rod nut was also rusted to the shaft and had to use a cutoff tool to separate it.

The rear shocks are a breeze...

[dustino8]

Well, I swapped out the stabilizer links last night, and what a hell of a job it was getting the nuts off. It took some penetrating oil, heat, some tapping, more heat, a few choice words, some grunt, and a few more choice words before the nuts would come loose . It took about two hours from start to finish. If the links came off easier, it would have been a 45 minute job including removing the tires.

I took the Pilot for a quick drive last night, and I think that there was an improvement, and after speaking to my wife this morning (she takes it to work), she agrees. I don't think its 100% improved, but there is an improvement. I'll know for sure after the weekend b/c we're heading to the lake and the highway up there is a real piece of work, so it'll give me a better feel for the amount of improvement.

After the trip if I feel there wasn't much improvement, its not such a big loss, $70 for both links. Thanks all for the advice.

And oh ya, I put one of the old links in a vice like belundy suggested, and I couldn't feel any ball socket looseness.

[mcazabon]

I recebtly had a similar issue with my 03 Pilot 70,000 miles. Loose steering wheel and lots of vibrations in the steering over bumps and during hard breaking. Turned out my front and right motor mounts were shot, replaced and covered by my extended warranty. I could of sworn my shocks were ready for replacement. After the motor mounts were replaced car felt great over bumps and breaking. They even tightened up the steering wheel

[dustino8]

Thanks for the input. I've taken a quick look at the mounts, but I think I'll check again.