ATF Cooler

[Alpo714]

Hello Honda Pilot Lovers,

I own a 2004 Honda Pilot EXL with Navi. I was planning on towing about 1000 lbs when I realized that I might need an ATF cooler + power steering cooler installed in my pilot.

What type of tow weight would require me to purchase and install both ATF and power steering cooler? And ... Is there a way of telling if my pilot has a ATF and power steering cooler already installed (since I bought it as a used vehicle).

Thanks!

Regards,

-Alpo

[archie]

way of telling if my pilot has a ATF and power steering cooler already installed

Check out these installation instructions. You should be able to look behind the grille and find out.

https://hondacuraworld.hostasaurus.c...uidcoolers.pdf

https://hondacuraworld.hostasaurus.c...uctions/pilot/

[CNJ]

I have a question on this subject: Who knows of a good aftermarket Trans Cooler that works on the Pilot? I'm getting a Curt Hitch and Wiring for $145 and am looking for a reasonably priced cooler. I believe there are better ones than the OEM for less than half the cost.

[ceraboy]

I have been very pleased with the Tru-cool unit.

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/me...roduct_Count=2

I like these self regulating, low pressure drop units in my colder climate.

For $50 this came with everything needed for an install and the performance should easily exceed OEM. I mounted it with the brackets for a more secure fit.

My only suggestion is forget the regular hose clamps that come with the kit, but go to the auto parts store and buy the fuel injection hose clamps, they give much more uniform clamping.

[krygny]

Originally posted by ceraboy
... and the performance should easily exceed OEM.
...

How would you ever know?

[ceraboy]

...because the aftermarket one is actually rated, and it well understood that stacked plate heat exchangers are more effective at transferring heat than tube and fin. A simple observation of the OEM unit, and even comparison with other equivalent tube and fin units probably put the OEM unit at well less than 10,000 GVW rating, which does coincide with the GCVW for the Pilot.

Dont just blindly think anything OEM must be the best, do a little research.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by ceraboy
...because the aftermarket one is actually rated, and it well understood that stacked plate heat exchangers are more effective at transferring heat than tube and fin. A simple observation of the OEM unit, and even comparison with other equivalent tube and fin units probably put the OEM unit at well less than 10,000 GVW rating, which does coincide with the GCVW for the Pilot.

Dont just blindly think anything OEM must be the best, do a little research.

Did you study the airflow across the aftermarket cooler?
Did you study how the aftermarket cooler affects other airflows?
Did you study the pumping losses and back pressure of the aftermarket cooler?


My guess is you just enough to know you are always right, and not quite enough to know what you don't know.

Am, I saying it is better, or worse? Nope!
Just saying there is a lot more to an OEM part than meets the eye!

[CNJ]

Originally posted by ceraboy
I have been very pleased with the Tru-cool unit.

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/me...roduct_Count=2

I like these self regulating, low pressure drop units in my colder climate.

For $50 this came with everything needed for an install and the performance should easily exceed OEM. I mounted it with the brackets for a more secure fit.

My only suggestion is forget the regular hose clamps that come with the kit, but go to the auto parts store and buy the fuel injection hose clamps, they give much more uniform clamping.

Thanks!

Originally posted by N_Jay


Did you study the airflow across the aftermarket cooler?
Did you study how the aftermarket cooler affects other airflows?
Did you study the pumping losses and back pressure of the aftermarket cooler?


My guess is you just enough to know you are always right, and not quite enough to know what you don't know.

Am, I saying it is better, or worse? Nope!
Just saying there is a lot more to an OEM part than meets the eye!

True - But Its way overpriced for just a tube!

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by CNJ
True - Its way overpriced

As a "Part" probably.

As an engineered component of a system, probably not!

[CNJ]

Originally posted by N_Jay


As a "Part" probably.

As an engineered component of a system, probably not!

Yea, I may have to break down and get the OEM so as to keep the warranty intact! I'll rarely tow with it but I certainly wouldn't want to buy a transmission. I really dont think I'll need the PS cooler though. $700 for just the parts of the tow pkg turned me off.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by CNJ
$700 for just the parts of the tow pkg turned me off.

That seems high.

What is Tim selling them for these days?

[ceraboy]

Pressure drop across tube is defined as Friction Coeff. x length/diameter x velocity assuming density is the same for tube fin vs stacked plate. The friction coeff. is dependent upon the interior surface finish as well as number/angle of bends. The OEM Honda unit may very well yield less pressure drop than an aftermarket tube/fin, but this is where the stacked plate really shines. The flow is separated into multiple parallel paths of reduced velocity than main line flow. In effect the length is a fraction of that for tube/fin while the diameter is equivalently higher, which combined with the lower velocity through the cooler reduces back pressure many times over. The tube/fin geometry is an old school implementation for heat exchangers and is used because it is usually cheaper to implement. Further, the Honda OEM units are constructed of steel instead of aluminum, which gives you another hit against you in terms of thermal conductivity (heat transfer). As you can see from the image of the 2009 Pilot, Honda is starting to implement aluminum stacked plate coolers, but it no doubt comes at a higher cost (although considering what Honda charges for the 2003 – 2008, is along the lines of highway robbery).

The airflow across the heat exchanger is yet more complex, particularly since where Honda mounts their lower cooler, the condenser often gets mashed from rock impacts affecting fluid flow. This will create a stagnation layer behind the OEM cooler, thus impeding flow over time. Not a particularly wise implementation.
Heat exchanger performance is dependent on surface exposed to the incoming air for which tube/fin systems offer the lowest level of performance. If you can remember back to high school geometry, the circle/sphere is the design of least surface area per given volume. Stacked plate coolers can offer levels of cooling in package much smaller and hence more efficient (minimizing your concerns with airflow disruption). Honda really skimped on this part, as it seems they initially put towing with our Pilots as an afterthought. At least for 2009, they are re-thinking that approach.

No automotive company builds and researches every component on their own, many items are supplied by aftermarket producers who have developed expertise in those particular components. Honda’s first implementation of coolers does indeed look like something they tried to do themselves when they should of left it to those better capable.

Based on your posting history N_jay, you have uncanny commitment to everything OEM. You have it wrong though, often there is less to OEM than meets the eye particularly when it is not related to the internal workings of the engine/transmission, even then do you think Honda researched and designed their own transmission clutch materials. Do you think Honda makes/produces their own fluids? Yes, one does have to be just as cautious of aftermarket manufacturer claims as sticking with OEM because it’s OEM. I always say I know enough to be dangerous, most of the time it works out in the end, sometimes I really work myself into a corner.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by ceraboy

Based on your posting history N_jay, you have uncanny commitment to everything OEM. You have it wrong though, often there is less to OEM than meets the eye particularly when it is not related to the internal workings of the engine/transmission, even then do you think Honda researched and designed their own transmission clutch materials. Do you think Honda makes/produces their own fluids? Yes, one does have to be just as cautious of aftermarket manufacturer claims as sticking with OEM because it’s OEM. I always say I know enough to be dangerous, most of the time it works out in the end, sometimes I really work myself into a corner.

Not everything, but after several years as a product manager, I have a healthy respect for the systems testing OEM parts typically receive that aftermarket parts rely on field failures and best guesses to get right.

I have an early CURT hitch for my CRV that showed a serious flaw, that Curt fixed a year later (after lots of complaints I would guess).

I also have developed/posted some of the first electrical modifications of the fog light circuit that this board has.

[ceraboy]

I have always felt that sometimes it is neither the part nor the automobile, but the integration of both that is the root of the problem, and this does usually arise from best guesses at both the aftermarket and even OEM level.

In the end, I would feel that anyone wanting to install an aftermarket trans. cooler would do very well with an appropriately sized stacked plate cooler. I have been running the one I suggested for 60,000miles without issue. The one caveat is that colder is not always better. Over-cooling the fluid particularly in colder climates from an over sized cooler could also bring with it new problems due to increased fluid viscosity and decreased solvency.

[CNJ]

Originally posted by N_Jay


That seems high.

What is Tim selling them for these days?

Last I checked it $698 or something ridicules. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for OEM in most cases but I drew the line with the Tow Pkg. With the wife not working now and 2 little ones I need to stretch my $.
Ceraboy, thanks for the Cooler Education. I may just get the one you recommended. Honda couldn't reject a trans failure warranty due to a aftermarket cooler could they? as long as it's a proven product. I just don't want to chance that though. Also did you say all the mounting hardware is in the kit? thanks