Sealent on top of Wax? or Remove Wax?

[sethramesh]

Is the Sealant applied on top of the wax or should i remove wax to apply sealant?

Thanks

[whizmo]

Sealant IS wax by another name.

- Mark

[OCDetails]

No, sealants are not just waxes. Sometimes people will refer to the application of a sealat as 'waxing', but they are definitely different. Sealants are synthetic products and waxes are natural carnauba. Sometimes compaines will call a sealant a wax because of the lack of education about the differences, but they are very very different. See my thread titled "Why are you still waxing your car?" for more info on that.

A sealant will not bond to oils or fillers. Those two things are the main ingredients of a carnauba wax, so a sealant will not bond to it. Once you use a carnauba product on your paint then your sealant layering is over until you remove the wax and start over. You can layer most sealants on top of themselves just fine, and waxes go fine over sealants, but you cannot use a sealant over a wax.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by OCDetails
No, sealants are not just waxes. Sometimes people will refer to the application of a sealat as 'waxing', but they are definitely different. Sealants are synthetic products and waxes are natural carnauba. Sometimes compaines will call a sealant a wax because of the lack of education about the differences, but they are very very different. See my thread titled "Why are you still waxing your car?" for more info on that.

A sealant will not bond to oils or fillers. Those two things are the main ingredients of a carnauba wax, so a sealant will not bond to it. Once you use a carnauba product on your paint then your sealant layering is over until you remove the wax and start over. You can layer most sealants on top of themselves just fine, and waxes go fine over sealants, but you cannot use a sealant over a wax.

Go to any auto parts store and look at the array of products called "waxes" on the shelf and you'll see lots of products that continue little or no natural carnauba. In fact, many products are called "sealant waxes". So I don't think there is any precise definition of the terms or any hard rules about incompatbilities, at least not with this terms.

- Mark

[iivtecracerii]

uhhh...i believe OCDetails just gave you precise definitions for sealants and waxes as well as an explanation why many OTC sealants are labeled as waxes...

to rehash:
waxes go on top of sealants. sealants dont go on top of waxes.

sealants are synthetic polymers. they "bond" to the paint and last much longer than waxes. putting a sealant over a wax is pretty much useless because the sealant cant bond with the paint and will just come off as the wax wears off (which will be quick).

again, many companies label sealants as waxes because 99% of the general public has no clue what a sealant is, but they do know what car wax is. biggest example: meguiar's NXT tech wax is a sealant, not a wax.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by iivtecracerii
uhhh...i believe OCDetails just gave you precise definitions for sealants and waxes as well as an explanation why many OTC sealants are labeled as waxes...

to rehash:
waxes go on top of sealants. sealants dont go on top of waxes.

sealants are synthetic polymers. they "bond" to the paint and last much longer than waxes. putting a sealant over a wax is pretty much useless because the sealant cant bond with the paint and will just come off as the wax wears off (which will be quick).

again, many companies label sealants as waxes because 99% of the general public has no clue what a sealant is, but they do know what car wax is. biggest example: meguiar's NXT tech wax is a sealant, not a wax.

IMHO, the distinction between sealants and waxes is arbitrary. And there is nothing on the NXT bottle or on Meguiars website that says you have to remove any wax first. A commerical detailer recommending extra services to get a better wax job? Imagine that.

BTW, OCDetails if you're here, why the heck does your website have a script runing which is trying to access my computer's clipboard?

- Mark

[iivtecracerii]

well 99% of the general public probably dont know how to remove wax. so meguiar's doesnt want to confuse them.

plus the sooner the NXT wears off, the sooner you have to apply more, and the sooner you go back to the store to get another bottle. meguiar's has it all figured out.

BTW, i'm not a professional detailer. just a hobbyist/enthusiast. but if you think about it logically, it makes more sense to apply the longer lasting product first, then the shorter lasting product on top of that instead of the other way around.

plus OCDetails isnt even in the vicinity of the OP nor is he offering his services. so theres not ulterior motive on his part except for providing helpful, correct information. if you choose not to take the advice of a professional detailer on proper detailing methods, that's your own choice. but dont provide misinformation to others. the OP just asked for the best way to apply a sealer and wax. and the best way is undoubtedly sealer first and wax second.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by iivtecracerii
if you choose not to take the advice of a professional detailer on proper detailing methods, that's your own choice. but dont provide misinformation to others. the OP just asked for the best way to apply a sealer and wax. and the best way is undoubtedly sealer first and wax second.

Just as a car salesman is not the best source of information about how to buy a car, I don't thnk a professional detailer is the last word on detailing methods. They have a vested interest to make things complicated so you'll use their services.

You may be right in that the absolute "best way" is to remove whatever you have on the car (sealant, wax, whatever), and then apply a new product. But is it cost effective or necessary for the average person wanting simply to spiff the car up? I doubt it. The name of the detailer really says it all. If you're obsessive and compulsive, go for it.

Everything I've read is that wax is wax. Forumulations come and go over the years, each saying that they're somehow different and revoltionary, but in the end, you apply a product, it last a while, and it washes away with sun, rain and salt and needs to be renewed. I don't think there is any magic bullet or any product that lasts 10x as long as another.

Take or leave my opinion - that's all it is.

- Mark

[iivtecracerii]

wax is indeed wax. but sealants are not wax, no matter what the label says. those are facts. you have your own opinions, that is fine. but don't project them onto other as if they are facts.

wax is a natural substance. sealants are synthetic. again, you cant rely on what the label says because its dumbed down for the average consumer.

i did not say sealants can last 10 times a long or whatever. i dont believe that either. but waxes wear off in a matter of weeks, whereas sealants i have found to last at least twice as long and are much more durable. my car was recently washed with dish soap (long story) which is a known method to strip wax off of paint. the last time i applied anything to my paint was NXT tech wax (again, its a sealant) two months ago. after said incident, the water is still beading off of it, so the NXT is still there....even after 2 months of CA sun and washing with dish soap.

it is indeed more cost effective to put wax over sealant than sealant over wax. like i said multiple times, wax wears off very quickly. anything you put over the wax will wear off along with it. so by putting sealant over wax you will be wasting more sealant because it will come off much quicker than it would if you put it on the paint first.

i'm sorry you have such a bleak outlook on other people, but not everyone is out to 'get' you. if you'd rather take advice from some amateur joe schmoe down the street instead of people who actually know what they're going, then by all means....

[OCDetails]

What is so complicated about using a sealant? They go on just like waxes. They are just checmically very different products. The fact that the typical consumer doesn't know jack about the difference between them (as iivtecracerii is demonstrating) is why they don't bother with the explanations on consumer grade products. Branch out into the enthusiast and professional grade products and you'll quickly learn the difference. I don't charge any more for a sealant than I do for a wax. The fact is that there aren't many waxes on the market that can compete with sealants by way of durability and looks. Actually, if I were a sleazy underhanded detailer then I would probably be suggesting that you NOT use a sealant on your car. What would be the benefit of me suggesting something that lasts twice as long? Wouldn't it be in my best interest to sell you on something that will require me to come back to service the customer more often? Before you make accusations about something that you know nothing about, you should at least think about it or try to learn something first.

The word 'sealant' is usually preceeded by the word 'Polymer' or 'Acrylic' just like the word 'wax' should be preceeded by the word 'carnauba'. And like I said, the fact that consumer grade products choose not to confuse the relatively uninformed Joe Schmoe shopping for car care products at his local Wal-Mart should not be any indication that sealants and waxes are the same. They are very different.

I have no idea why my site does that on some browsers. Photobucket does that to me too when I go there. I must have some funky javascript running or something. I'm in the process of building a new site, so I haven't looked at the code on mine for a long time. OCDetails.com was my first site and not built very well.

[PhishingPhreak]

So if I understand this correctly. I should prep my surface by cleaning then polishing with my preferred products. Then apply my favorite sealant. And lastly, a wax if I choose...All done under the cool shade of a banana tree, on the rugged trail toward the balcony....

That is for sure a day's work..

[humanoid]

clay, polish, wax then sealant. Check out the stuff from adamspolishes.com, some of the best stuff you will find. Enter TN in the discount box for 10% off too.... and no, I am in no way affiliated with them, they make good products and I just want to help spread the word.

[Sportymonk]

Can I bring some closure to this?

Simply go and apply Klasse All in One Polish and then Apply Klass Sealant and you are done for a long time. Reapply sealant periodically. Drink cold beer when finsihed. Step back and enjoy your work.

[PhishingPhreak]

Originally posted by humanoid
clay, polish, wax then sealant. Check out the stuff from adamspolishes.com, some of the best stuff you will find. Enter TN in the discount box for 10% off too.... and no, I am in no way affiliated with them, they make good products and I just want to help spread the word.

Took your advice and picked up some Adam's polish and sealant. I have a sage brush pearl 05' as well...

Here's to you!




I'll report back with my findings...

[humanoid]

Originally posted by PhishingPhreak


Took your advice and picked up some Adam's polish and sealant. I have a sage brush pearl 05' as well...

Here's to you!




I'll report back with my findings...

Phreak, I need to amend the above post. I meant to say: clay, polish, sealant and then wax!!